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Aero Silver Profile
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Registered: 03-2013
Location: Southern California
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Re: Epic Levels: Do we need them?


quote:

rakkarakka wrote:
On the fence about ECL and epic levels: epic levels are fun, and neat, and cool, but playing a subrace does not seem like it was ever meant to be an easy thing. I wholeheartedly believe that applying for a subrace indicates that you are accepting the burden of a higher standard of some sort, and accept that your characters journey will be harder to reflect the bonuses they receive otherwise.

That is a very nice statement. You put it very eloquently. That statement changed my opinion on the subject matter.


quote:

Numos wrote:
To answer your question, Aero, I honestly don't think the intent of the 21 cap is to impede the development of ECL PCs. I mean I suppose they could eventually be allowed to reach that point, just more slowly?

Fine by me then. Thanks for explaining that.

---
Snacks are of course incredibly important to the roleplaying experience. Being part of a balanced diet, it's essential to have representatives of all four basic food groups: sugar, salt, fat, and caffeine. ~Irregulars - January 02, 2011.
4/7/2013, 3:12 am Link to this post Send Email to Aero Silver   Send PM to Aero Silver Blog
 
Arknin Profile
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Re: Epic Levels: Do we need them?


Dunno if I should be posting but level caps and epic levels are something I never changed my opinion about and it might surprise some of you.

Bring it down to 21, I say.

I'm a big fan of how 2nd edition did things. Nothing past 20 until they got the Epic Level Handbook out, and even that was filled with more suggestions and ideas than rules, pointing toward characters playing the political game rather than going out killing gods before breakfast.

As Explodingrunes pointed out however, there's this whole thing about ascending to godhood (especially within the Church of the Exile), but that isn't mechanics-dependant.

Most important I think is the fact that it would facilitate things for DM making events, which is beneficial for DM's and players alike.


Oh and about ECL...
I mentionned 2nd edition earlier. Another thing they did was put a soft level cap on demihumans. In 3rd, they simply gave humans advantages to put them on the same level as elves and dwarves, and then put in stronger races with level adjustments... but back then, even halflings had a soft level cap.
I would suggest doing the same for races with a level adjustment.

---

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Numos Profile
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Re: Epic Levels: Do we need them?


Personally I think epic levels, coupled with an inflated average level, tend to de-mystify and cheapen a lot of the cool achievements you get during 1-20.

By 9th level characters are already teleporting all over the place and raising the dead - these things should be huge earth-shattering achievements representing the abilities of prodigy-wizards and divine champions. With the powers you gain at 20th level, allowing you to stand toe-to-toe with an ancient dragons, you should 'already' be in that gray area between mortal and divine.

This has nothing to do with

The reason I didn't make a poll is because intelligent arguments are more important than votes. If you're really passionate, or have some good points about how this effects things and your point of view, I'd rather hear that!

So far no one seems to mind.

Last edited by Numos, 4/9/2013, 12:50 am


---
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Numos: Shapeshifting wizard
Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
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ExplodingRunes Profile
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Re: Epic Levels: Do we need them?


My only issue with it would be that multiclass characters may not be able to reach the same capabilities as single class ones. The specific case I raise here is Reven, who tries to balance his magical genius and his warrior physicality. Obviously he will be slower in each of his paths than if he had dedicated himself wholly to it, but in theory he should be able to eventually reach archmage status despite also being a brutal warrior. Taking more than merely a token level or two in his other class however, he would never reach 9th level spell casting.

On the other hand, I can simply imagine that he will eventually get there beyond the scope of play. Any other spell casters who want to round out with a few levels in another class might take a similar attitude.

I shall share one further observation before I go to bed: we can always revisit this topic later if we change our minds. Say that a significant portion of the population reaches level 21, and want to keep developing their characters. Say that a dm or two think they're up to the challenge of running events for the higher level population. We can always open up the topic again later, if the needs of the community change. And at that point, anyone who felt that multiclassing held them back from their potential may finish their development with the feeling of great accomplishment that waiting may add to.

---
Creator of A Tale of Bone and Steel.

Cloak and Dagger
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Fraydoc Profile
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Re: Epic Levels: Do we need them?


I dont "mind" either.. I like the idea of having one epic feat and stuff.. And making new PCs have a chance against old vets.. Only thing I wonder is if the PCs that ore over 21, will they get anything back in "trade" for each dropped lvl or something.. that wouldnt make the ladder climbing trying to reach 30 someday to waste..

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Re: Epic Levels: Do we need them?


Well, besides our thanks I don't know what we can really offer, sadly. Levels 21-30 were always just extras intended to reward very active and driven PCs.

If yout got through it with rp xp you have some cool stories to tell and the opportunity for a neat retirement. If its the result of extreme dungeon-running I don't know how to compensate that. It was never anyone's intention that PCs sink time into doing so.

---
Characters:
Numos: Shapeshifting wizard
Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
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Fraydoc Profile
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Re: Epic Levels: Do we need them?


When is the cap coming? And will it be 21 or 20 ?

Also, I had this thought.. Could maybe dropped lvls be a bonus on a new character that player rolls up maybe?
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