Pro and Con: Mind Fog https://bandrune.runboard.com/t931 Runboard| Pro and Con: Mind Fog en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:06:14 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:06:14 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p4006,from=rss#post4006https://bandrune.runboard.com/p4006,from=rss#post4006quote:Numos wrote: Actually, one thing I've OMITTED is archer mobs. I think if you want to blast a large pack of archers with confusion or fear... that is where it really shines. Because they will stay put in he fog under current AI conditions. I think I mentioned the archers earlier on, too. As far as spell efficiency, the Kobold Wyrm-Children, kobold archers and sea devils in the Twilight Reef can be a pain. But with a little patience and some "guerilla spellcasting" methods, you can do significant damage or death to them with two spells. Run into view, throw a Mind Fog in the middle of two or three wyrm-kids, run back around the corner. Wait a second or two while they cast spells at nothing. Then run back into view, fling a Confusion in the middle of the mob and duck back out of sight. Cool your heels for a bit, smack down any kobolds or sea devils who come around the corner after you, and otherwise savor the sounds of battle as the baddies rip into each other. Once the clamor dies down, run back out and finish off the survivors. >:] To our frustration, the wonky AI also ensures that Confused spellcasters will usually run up and start punching each other, even if they're armed with a full complement of spells. But every now and then, a Sea Devil will bring an Ice Storm down on his buddy's head. Glory ensues. nondisclosed_email@example.com (The Wids)Fri, 12 Apr 2013 22:32:24 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p4005,from=rss#post4005https://bandrune.runboard.com/p4005,from=rss#post4005I'd love an AI system that was more advanced, with mobs moving away from AOEs and dodging and the like, but, alas NWN! nondisclosed_email@example.com (Totems)Fri, 12 Apr 2013 22:11:41 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p4004,from=rss#post4004https://bandrune.runboard.com/p4004,from=rss#post4004Actually, one thing I've OMITTED is archer mobs. I think if you want to blast a large pack of archers with confusion or fear... that is where it really shines. Because they will stay put in he fog under current AI conditions.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Numos)Fri, 12 Apr 2013 21:09:19 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p4002,from=rss#post4002https://bandrune.runboard.com/p4002,from=rss#post4002Admittedly the spell's uses are a bit limited; we could say the same about spells like Banishment, Control Undead and perhaps Blackstaff as well. But the spell has proven useful against enemy spellcasters (as well as the occasional bunched-up mob of baddies who are too dumb to get out of the fog). And I've found that, like most of the other fog and cloud spells (Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill, et al), Mind Fog can be useful as a provoker spell. Think of all the times you've laid down a mess of traps, Walls of Fire, Delayed Blast Fireballs or other nasty surprises, only to have the big bad who's supposed to come running through them to get at you duck around a corner and refuse to come out. Maybe a well-placed Fireball will flush him out. Maybe he's too far around the corner and your Fireball's just going to miss him and be wasted. But with the cloud/fog spells, that big bad's more likely to wander back into the fog while it's lingering (usually the fringe that's around the corner where he is), get annoyed and come running through your gauntlet to get at you. Mind Fog just comes with the extra benefit of being more able to slap him with a Hold Monster once he gets within spitting distance. (On that note, don't use Stinking Cloud as a provoker. Nothing sucks like having the big bad roll a 1 and stand there dazed while your three Walls of Fire and your DBF burn out. )nondisclosed_email@example.com (The Wids)Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:23:28 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p3998,from=rss#post3998https://bandrune.runboard.com/p3998,from=rss#post3998The thing is - if you can afford to stand with your targets in a mind fog for more than a few rounds so that they're guaranteed to fail their save they're either not worth using a control spell on or you're going to use up too many high level spell protections. It might he cool, but its just not very efficient nondisclosed_email@example.com (Numos)Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:19:57 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p3986,from=rss#post3986https://bandrune.runboard.com/p3986,from=rss#post3986...not that Finger of Death is the only such spell, mind you. Flesh to Stone is another favorite for stopping enemy spellcasters in their tracks. Shadow Shield won't stop it, and neither will Globe of Invulnerability. My Transmuter on the bygone Castlevania server used to petrify Ottoman wizards all the time. quote:Arknin wrote: Also, that little comic was awesome. Oh, you're just saying that. nondisclosed_email@example.com (The Wids)Wed, 10 Apr 2013 20:55:13 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p3963,from=rss#post3963https://bandrune.runboard.com/p3963,from=rss#post3963quote:The Wids wrote: Yes, Fortitude save for Mind Fog might be nice; spellcasters don't seem to have all that many options for taking advantage of each other's low Fort saves. Greater Spell Breach + Finger Of Death Greater Dispelling + Finger Of Death Mordenkainen's Disjunction + Finger Of Death or, if the unfortunate mage can't cast Shadow Shield, just go right for the jugular. nondisclosed_email@example.com (hotrodlincoln)Sun, 07 Apr 2013 19:30:44 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p3962,from=rss#post3962https://bandrune.runboard.com/p3962,from=rss#post3962In an old game I like, one of the spellcasters has a spell that's a beam that attack Reflexes that lowers Magic Defense... next spell level there's a spell that rolls vs Magic Defense that instantly kills its target. Oh, the lols... Also, that little comic was awesome.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Arknin)Sun, 07 Apr 2013 17:37:24 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p3863,from=rss#post3863https://bandrune.runboard.com/p3863,from=rss#post3863Yes, Fortitude save for Mind Fog might be nice; spellcasters don't seem to have all that many options for taking advantage of each other's low Fort saves. But don't forget that Mind Fog is also one of the very few mind-affecting attacks with durations longer than Instant (the spell itself, not its effects). Once you cast Hold, Dominate or Confusion, the spell flashes and goes away, regardless of whether its targets pass or fail their Will saves. Mind Fog lingers for several rounds (specifically, 2 rounds plus one more round for every two of the caster's Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard Levels). So if the enemies stick around in the fog, the fog will keep attacking them again and again and again. The trick is to keep the enemies in the fog, but that's not impossible; with a few good protection spells, you can run right up to an enemy spellcaster (or several, if they're not spread out, bearing in mind that their warriors will be closing in on you), drop a Mind Fog at your own feet, wait until most of the mob has those telltale "twinkly rings" around their heads, then throw a Confusion at your feet. Braweann has done this Death Blossom tactic several times; it works, provided that you're 1) not up against overpowering enemies who eat right through your protection spells, and 2) immune to your own mind attacks. You did remember your Protection/Magic Circle/Clarity/Mind Blank magic, right? Of course, you may have allies to consider as well; blasting the party's Fighters with Mind Fog and Confusion might be considered rude. But then, you can just lay your mind immunities on them and use them as mob bait instead. Unless you're a morally Neutral spellcaster, Protection from Good/Evil should be enough. Be sure to thank your bait with some choice buff spells beforehand. nondisclosed_email@example.com (The Wids)Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:32:06 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p3856,from=rss#post3856https://bandrune.runboard.com/p3856,from=rss#post3856Or a Fort save instead. *EVIL GRIN*nondisclosed_email@example.com (everf)Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:58:13 +0000 Re: Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p3855,from=rss#post3855https://bandrune.runboard.com/p3855,from=rss#post3855I admit I've never really used it but don't you need to fail a will save To receive the penalty? It seems more economical to spend valuable actions and risk spell failure to try casting confusion or hold monster twice than to cast mind fog and then another enchantment. The former actually has a better chance of working in most circumstances. In weakening enemies with high will saves your chances for success do not improve: Let's say an enemy cleric has a 75% chance of saving... and you can choose between mind fog and hold monster, or two hold monsters: 75% = chance of success vs. One hold monster 75% * 75% = 56.25 chance of success vs. Two hold monsters. Mind fog gives your cleric a... 75% chance of a 75% of success (mind fog fails), plus a 25% chance of a 25% chance of success (mind fog succeeds) = 62.5% chance of saving. The only time where it may be desirable is if you want to make absolutely certain a low DC spell scroll lands on a target. I don't think its a good sorcerer pick when there are much better 5th level spells. I suppose it might be more interesting and useful if it had no save, or automatically stripped mental protections.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Numos)Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:15:21 +0000 Pro and Con: Mind Foghttps://bandrune.runboard.com/p3852,from=rss#post3852https://bandrune.runboard.com/p3852,from=rss#post3852So last night, I had a brief debate with another player about Mind Fog and its worth as a 5th Level spell. By his/her point of view, Mind Fog is useless, because if your enemies can fail the Will Save against Mind Fog, then they can just as easily fail the Will Save against a more punishing spell like Charm Whatever, Hold Whatever, Dominate Whatever, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, the oh so deadly Weird and all of the other mind-affecting spells and supernatural abilities in the game. (Yes, including Mind Fog. You can use Mind Fog to set someone up for another Mind Fog. Unless multiple Mind Fogs stack, I'm not sure why anyone would actually want to do that. But there it is.) But by my point of view, Mind Fog can be useful for weakening enemy spellcasters and other enemies with high Will Saves. After all, Mind Fog lingers for several rounds. And the nice thing about spellcasting NPCs and monsters is that they like to stand their ground and hurl more spells at you when they should be moving out of a sustained and hostile area of effect (for example, a Mind Fog). And the longer they stand around in the Mind Fog, the more likely they are to fail a Will Save, making them dead meat for whatever instantaneous whammy of a mind-attack spell you have in store for them next. Thus, Mind Fog can be helpful in conserving spells simply by reducing the odds that that Phantasmal Killer or Mass Charm spell which you've been itching to cast won't be wasted when the targeted enemy/enemies ace the Will Save. I myself have noticed that Braweann's Hold Monster spells have been snagging Arges the Overseer on the first casting more frequently ever since I gave her Mind Fog and started lobbing it at Arges with my opening attacks. And it's okay to blast yourself with your own Mind Fog so long as 1) your enemy has no mind attacks, or 2) you have immunity to mind attacks. (Since Arges has his Fear gaze, the latter applies here.) Of course, since Mind Fog is an AoE spell, you get more bang out of it if you use it to set up oodles of baddies for another AoE spell, such as Confusion, Mass Charm or Weird. Sure, Mind Fog may not be terribly useful against warriors, rogues and other creatures with already wretched Will Saves; on the other hand, a warrior with a measly +4 Will Save is still much better off than a warrior with a horrible -6 Will Save. So what do you think? Is Mind Fog useless or useful, and why? Also, I made this. Discuss. nondisclosed_email@example.com (The Wids)Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:42:46 +0000