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The Wids Profile
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Pro and Con: Mind Fog


So last night, I had a brief debate with another player about Mind Fog and its worth as a 5th Level spell.

By his/her point of view, Mind Fog is useless, because if your enemies can fail the Will Save against Mind Fog, then they can just as easily fail the Will Save against a more punishing spell like Charm Whatever, Hold Whatever, Dominate Whatever, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, the oh so deadly Weird and all of the other mind-affecting spells and supernatural abilities in the game. (Yes, including Mind Fog. You can use Mind Fog to set someone up for another Mind Fog. Unless multiple Mind Fogs stack, I'm not sure why anyone would actually want to do that. But there it is.)

But by my point of view, Mind Fog can be useful for weakening enemy spellcasters and other enemies with high Will Saves. After all, Mind Fog lingers for several rounds. And the nice thing about spellcasting NPCs and monsters is that they like to stand their ground and hurl more spells at you when they should be moving out of a sustained and hostile area of effect (for example, a Mind Fog). And the longer they stand around in the Mind Fog, the more likely they are to fail a Will Save, making them dead meat for whatever instantaneous whammy of a mind-attack spell you have in store for them next. Thus, Mind Fog can be helpful in conserving spells simply by reducing the odds that that Phantasmal Killer or Mass Charm spell which you've been itching to cast won't be wasted when the targeted enemy/enemies ace the Will Save.

I myself have noticed that Braweann's Hold Monster spells have been snagging Arges the Overseer on the first casting more frequently ever since I gave her Mind Fog and started lobbing it at Arges with my opening attacks. And it's okay to blast yourself with your own Mind Fog so long as 1) your enemy has no mind attacks, or 2) you have immunity to mind attacks. (Since Arges has his Fear gaze, the latter applies here.)

Of course, since Mind Fog is an AoE spell, you get more bang out of it if you use it to set up oodles of baddies for another AoE spell, such as Confusion, Mass Charm or Weird. Sure, Mind Fog may not be terribly useful against warriors, rogues and other creatures with already wretched Will Saves; on the other hand, a warrior with a measly +4 Will Save is still much better off than a warrior with a horrible -6 Will Save.

So what do you think? Is Mind Fog useless or useful, and why?

Also, I made this. emoticon

Image Image

Image Image

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Discuss. emoticon

Last edited by The Wids, 3/28/2013, 8:47 pm
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Numos Profile
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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


I admit I've never really used it but don't you need to fail a will save To receive the penalty? It seems more economical to spend valuable actions and risk spell failure to try casting confusion or hold monster twice than to cast mind fog and then another enchantment. The former actually has a better chance of working in most circumstances.

In weakening enemies with high will saves your chances for success do not improve: Let's say an enemy cleric has a 75% chance of saving... and you can choose between mind fog and hold monster, or two hold monsters:

75% = chance of success vs. One hold monster

75% * 75% = 56.25 chance of success vs. Two hold monsters.

Mind fog gives your cleric a... 75% chance of a 75% of success (mind fog fails), plus a 25% chance of a 25% chance of success (mind fog succeeds) = 62.5% chance of saving.


The only time where it may be desirable is if you want to make absolutely certain a low DC spell scroll lands on a target.

I don't think its a good sorcerer pick when there are much better 5th level spells.

I suppose it might be more interesting and useful if it had no save, or automatically stripped mental protections.

Last edited by Numos, 3/29/2013, 12:06 pm


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everf Profile
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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


Or a Fort save instead. *EVIL GRIN*

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Kedri Senderthen- The Spring Storm
Fredegar Bumbleroot - A Happy-go-lucky Halfling
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The Wids Profile
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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


Yes, Fortitude save for Mind Fog might be nice; spellcasters don't seem to have all that many options for taking advantage of each other's low Fort saves. emoticon

But don't forget that Mind Fog is also one of the very few mind-affecting attacks with durations longer than Instant (the spell itself, not its effects). Once you cast Hold, Dominate or Confusion, the spell flashes and goes away, regardless of whether its targets pass or fail their Will saves. Mind Fog lingers for several rounds (specifically, 2 rounds plus one more round for every two of the caster's Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard Levels). So if the enemies stick around in the fog, the fog will keep attacking them again and again and again.

The trick is to keep the enemies in the fog, but that's not impossible; with a few good protection spells, you can run right up to an enemy spellcaster (or several, if they're not spread out, bearing in mind that their warriors will be closing in on you), drop a Mind Fog at your own feet, wait until most of the mob has those telltale "twinkly rings" around their heads, then throw a Confusion at your feet. Braweann has done this Death Blossom tactic several times; it works, provided that you're 1) not up against overpowering enemies who eat right through your protection spells, and 2) immune to your own mind attacks. You did remember your Protection/Magic Circle/Clarity/Mind Blank magic, right? emoticon

Of course, you may have allies to consider as well; blasting the party's Fighters with Mind Fog and Confusion might be considered rude. But then, you can just lay your mind immunities on them and use them as mob bait instead. Unless you're a morally Neutral spellcaster, Protection from Good/Evil should be enough. Be sure to thank your bait with some choice buff spells beforehand. emoticon
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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


In an old game I like, one of the spellcasters has a spell that's a beam that attack Reflexes that lowers Magic Defense... next spell level there's a spell that rolls vs Magic Defense that instantly kills its target. Oh, the lols...

Also, that little comic was awesome.

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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


quote:

The Wids wrote:

Yes, Fortitude save for Mind Fog might be nice; spellcasters don't seem to have all that many options for taking advantage of each other's low Fort saves. emoticon



Greater Spell Breach + Finger Of Death
Greater Dispelling + Finger Of Death
Mordenkainen's Disjunction + Finger Of Death

or, if the unfortunate mage can't cast Shadow Shield, just go right for the jugular.

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The Wids Profile
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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


...not that Finger of Death is the only such spell, mind you. Flesh to Stone is another favorite for stopping enemy spellcasters in their tracks. Shadow Shield won't stop it, and neither will Globe of Invulnerability. My Transmuter on the bygone Castlevania server used to petrify Ottoman wizards all the time.

quote:

Arknin wrote:

Also, that little comic was awesome.


Oh, you're just saying that. emoticon

Last edited by The Wids, 4/10/2013, 8:58 pm
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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


The thing is - if you can afford to stand with your targets in a mind fog for more than a few rounds so that they're guaranteed to fail their save they're either not worth using a control spell on or you're going to use up too many high level spell protections.

It might he cool, but its just not very efficient

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Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
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The Wids Profile
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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


Admittedly the spell's uses are a bit limited; we could say the same about spells like Banishment, Control Undead and perhaps Blackstaff as well. But the spell has proven useful against enemy spellcasters (as well as the occasional bunched-up mob of baddies who are too dumb to get out of the fog).

And I've found that, like most of the other fog and cloud spells (Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill, et al), Mind Fog can be useful as a provoker spell. Think of all the times you've laid down a mess of traps, Walls of Fire, Delayed Blast Fireballs or other nasty surprises, only to have the big bad who's supposed to come running through them to get at you duck around a corner and refuse to come out. Maybe a well-placed Fireball will flush him out. Maybe he's too far around the corner and your Fireball's just going to miss him and be wasted. But with the cloud/fog spells, that big bad's more likely to wander back into the fog while it's lingering (usually the fringe that's around the corner where he is), get annoyed and come running through your gauntlet to get at you. Mind Fog just comes with the extra benefit of being more able to slap him with a Hold Monster once he gets within spitting distance.

(On that note, don't use Stinking Cloud as a provoker. Nothing sucks like having the big bad roll a 1 and stand there dazed while your three Walls of Fire and your DBF burn out. emoticon )
4/12/2013, 8:23 pm Link to this post Send Email to The Wids   Send PM to The Wids Blog
 
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Re: Pro and Con: Mind Fog


Actually, one thing I've OMITTED is archer mobs. I think if you want to blast a large pack of archers with confusion or fear... that is where it really shines. Because they will stay put in he fog under current AI conditions.

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Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
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