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Numos Profile
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Registered: 12-2006
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Re: My two gold pieces.


Its an interesting idea. Though personally I'd rather make reward match risk by upping the reward rather than eliminating the risk. The problem with that under the present system is that dungeons can be very binary. Either you can hunt forever or you're hemorrhaging supplies to survive. Obviously groups will go to the former sort of dungeon. The problem with this is experience then is just a function of time spent running around the dungeon whacking things.

What I want to do with this new change is make larger chunks of experience come from successfully overcoming proportionally greater risks:
*If You're 12th level and alone you can go kill Archibald or Arges. Receive maybe 150-200 xp each.
*A buddy logs on. Now you can hit Shadow pine, maybe spending some supplies to best the spawns, but you'll earn a combined 450 xp killing the Keeper and Elemental Altars.

Obviously there's a risk of death here. But you stand to gain a decent chunk of experience. That's what I'd like to sum for: larger awards proportional to riskier goals.

Last edited by Numos, 3/23/2013, 1:50 pm


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Characters:
Numos: Shapeshifting wizard
Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
3/23/2013, 1:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to Numos   Send PM to Numos
 
Totems Profile
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Registered: 07-2010
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Re: My two gold pieces.


I do have to agree that the cap on the pawn makes higher level areas less appealing. It gives a very sudden ceiling to the gold gain outside of the lower level dungeons. The added EXP reward might help with that, though. I just don't want to see high level PCs running The townhouse or something for their main gold staple.

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Isania Jalitana- The Huntress (and Mistress Egofantastic.)
Calisto - Gryphonrider
Nyx Talonbite- Amazon Crystal Champion of Death By Snu Snu
3/23/2013, 2:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to Totems   Send PM to Totems Blog
 
ExplodingRunes Profile
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Registered: 12-2005
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Re: My two gold pieces.


From Numos, in the recent update thread entry:
quote:

*Defeating bosses, providing there are no PCs who outlevel the average dungeon level by 5 in the area, will yield extra experience. This means if you slay the Shadowpine Keeper you will receive 275 xp, unless a 17th level PC is helping you out.



I think that it probably shouldn't be per boss kill, unless that is the plot of the dungeon. Rather, each dungeon should have a plot or quest associated with it which should give a bonus for completing. Examples: Activate all four elders in haderine, bring a log book from the goblins to a druid or library quest giver to update them on the goblins' progress, smash the statue of Darach in Tylwythen Deep, giving tribute to or defeating a champion of Valinael in the garden...

Basically, make it a quest award, and make the quest related to something the characters can do other than just killing. This way, adventurers are deeper people than just stab-monkeys!

---
Creator of A Tale of Bone and Steel.

Cloak and Dagger
3/24/2013, 6:22 pm Link to this post Send Email to ExplodingRunes   Send PM to ExplodingRunes
 
Arknin Profile
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Re: My two gold pieces.


More thoughts!

Abolishing timezones sounds like win.

Killing Archi or Arges at level 12 is what's been killing Meru (through spell abuse for Arges and through sneak attack abuse for Archi) before even reaching the boss. So having extra xp on bosses wouldn't help much.
Dungeon quests might (plus they'd be fun) but the real difference maker is the regular mobs.
Besides a single boss monster guy is often less dangerous than a bunch of regular mobs. For example, Archi hits hard but he can't sneak attack you on his own but 3 rogue mobs have a lot more damage potential than Archi... so beating them should be worth more than beating Archi.
Risk vs reward.

While the RP has been great and I like a challenge, this server's design seems to really encourage powerbuilds, as you can't solo without one.
This is why a high Dex (cause she's a dancer) barbarian with a non-buffable weapon (cause it looks cool) will never do as good as most characters who grind on their own all the time despite the grouping encouragement.

Other than boosting xp, I think it would be more simple to reduce the penalty of dying.
I personally favor a system where dying does not come with any loss at all... except you have a limited amount of "lives". Last server I played we had 1 token per level, could possibly earn more through DM (kinda like Hero Points or whatever) and lost 1 for each respawn.

This way dying felt much less frustrating (as you wouldn't feel you were going backward instead of progressing) while still enforcing a sense of dread and cautiousness in the players.

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rakkarakka Profile
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Re: My two gold pieces.


If you want a powerful character, you need to build your character in a manner according to what you want to achieve.

If you want a specialized RP build, you can build one, but don't expect it to be as mechanically powerful as a build that plays to the strengths of the mechanics. Having a high Dex to reflect a dancer is all well and good, but if you use a weapon that requires strength to wield it, then you can hardly cry foul when your AB is low. Ditto for a specialized CEP weapon that, unfortunately, cannot be enchanted. Unless you pursue lines with a DM to get one that is a bit more powerful, what you see is always what you get.

The death penalty is, unfortunately, a penalty, the game telling you in explicit terms that you have failed to exercise proper caution or tactics (or, you know, sacrificing a pigeon to prevent lag, but that's just tuesdays.) XP can be regained, especially with the new bosses dropping significant rewards. DM based systems get iffy, because some DM's may feel obligated to drop them every event, and that gets messy, and if you are down to your last one then you don't want to go anywhere for fear of perma-killing your character.

There's the ancient gaming motto of "It's dangerous to go alone." Even when watching health bars (better than reality TV!) I see duos or trios get stomped when they find a Big Bad. Not everywhere can be solo'd dependent on level, nor is it necessarily meant to be. The ones that can, often, are the older characters, with the gear, levels, and stories to go with it all. Or they're just that ballsy and know no fear.

Is there class imbalance? Of course. Casters will generally trump melee characters, archers currently get a bit of the shaft (see what I did there?) because arrows cost bazillion trillions of gold, and specialized RP-build characters will always suffer... but it's certainly not impossible to play.
3/26/2013, 1:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to rakkarakka   Send PM to rakkarakka Blog
 
Numos Profile
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Registered: 12-2006
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Re: My two gold pieces.


The important thing to remember is this isn't a roleplaying server with an action minigame off to the side. Adventuring and role-play are inter-mixed.

I can certainly make it more clear in the server introduction but as you push beyond 10th level effortless monster crushing will not level you up quickly. It can be done, certainly, with certain character-types but I don't think its very rewarding nor is it meant to be. If you want to grow in power quickly beyond 10th level you need to play a character whose heroic, villainous, or entrepreneurial; or risk death (or blow a shadow-shield scroll) facing more challenging encounters.

That's always how its been and how I think it should be. If you want to play a character with a gimped role-playing build you cannot expect to be successful at solo-grinding, but if your PC is interesting I would hope a DM will catch on and reward that - just like a lame Bard/Blackguard/Red Dragon Disciple might not get a whole lot of attention unless they really work to justify the build (some kind of singing/dancing champion of Tiamat? Who knows?)

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Numos: Shapeshifting wizard
Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
3/26/2013, 5:12 pm Link to this post Send Email to Numos   Send PM to Numos
 
Arknin Profile
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Registered: 02-2007
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Re: My two gold pieces.


You both seem to misunderstand... My characters are not gimped. They're fairly decent and would rip through the OC. Merunia has 16 dex.. but she also has 16 stremgtj. It's not 18, but it's decent. She has +17 AB unbuffed at level 12, I think it's fair. However they're not powerbuilds and they pale in comparison to many here and they seem to have a hard time soling.

As for death penalty being a penalty, that is one school of thought. I happen to be in the other, which states that dying is already frustrating in and of itself, there is no need to penalyze a player for falling victim to bad rolls on top of it.

Both sides are perfectly valid, but as I state my opinion, it is with that in mind.

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Sabella Profile
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Registered: 03-2013
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Re: My two gold pieces.


You mentioned earlier about trying to reset daily to allow for boss kill XP. For days that you aren't able to reset the server, why not have a back up system in place that puts a 24 hour countdown on characters for boss kill XP?

That way you don't have to worry with resetting, and if you miss one or a few it won't matter.
3/29/2013, 7:00 am Link to this post Send Email to Sabella   Send PM to Sabella Blog
 
theintrepidgnome Profile
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Registered: 02-2013
Location: Australia
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Re: My two gold pieces.


quote:

Arknin wrote:

As for death penalty being a penalty, that is one school of thought. I happen to be in the other, which states that dying is already frustrating in and of itself, there is no need to penalyze a player for falling victim to bad rolls on top of it.



I've actually used dying as a fast travel system on servers without hefty penalties before.

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Calchas Blaesus: A mad seer.
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