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Moseph Profile
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Crafting on Aolyth


I'm wondering if there's any plans to implement CNR on the server.

I realize that we could try to use the native NWN crafting system, but resources are pretty sparse and quite frankly, you need to be super-high level before you even have a chance at making anything worth using, and by that point, it's not even usable to you, since you've adventured and acquired items that are undoubtedly just as good (probably better).

What was nice about CNR is that it wasn't tied to your xp, so you could actually produce decent stuff with some elbow grease.

I know there was some argument about availability of materials and resource scarecity, and placement for realism. Implementing CNR on the server is a pretty big job even if you don't consider that. Assuming that it all could be figured out (I have some suggestions about that if interested), is it a potential inclusion in the game?

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Faraday Halifax - Rick from the Reef

Milo Mestilsun - Half-Elf Tinker/Courier

Durben - Human Farmer/Artisan <whereabouts unknown>

Giaran Borma - Human Lawyer/Bounty Hunter <deceased>
1/23/2008, 8:18 am Link to this post Send Email to Moseph   Send PM to Moseph
 
Tazon Dae Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


I say nnnoooooo. There's alot of good to come with it, yeah, but then there's alot of BAD with it too. Every twinked out nut-job will be richer because they can solo whatever hell hole the materials are in, and the average Joe characters will be left poor (as usual) because they just can't reach the zone.

Also, I have trouble seeing some big clumsy warrior type being the guy who makes all the pretty and expensive MAGIC rings while the mage who is experienced with magic (but can't survive the run down through all the god-creatures) is left staring stupidly at a rock.

The game has a crafting system we could implement and if someone wants to make something special, they could always ask a DM for help on it. The issue there, however, is if it's one of the DMs who throw insane loot like it's fncking beads at marti-gras or one of the level headed DMs who try to cater loot to the effort AND level AAAAND class in question (IE: I still couldn't see a fighter with no skill in casting spells making a sword of fireball deflection or some sh!t).

So that's my two cents on the subject. It's nice, it could do so much more, but it's way too imbalanced for the gaming system in general.

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1/23/2008, 9:24 am Link to this post Send Email to Tazon Dae   Send PM to Tazon Dae
 
Moseph Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


quote:

Tazon Dae wrote:
I say nnnoooooo. There's alot of good to come with it, yeah, but then there's alot of BAD with it too. Every twinked out nut-job will be richer because they can solo whatever hell hole the materials are in, and the average Joe characters will be left poor (as usual) because they just can't reach the zone.



Actually, I think if it is smartly implemented, CNR would allow lower level characters to sort of twink themselves. This is a relatively high level server, and that would provide a natural method of helping to even the playing field between the relatively underpowered characters and the long-term superhero types (provided the lower levels are willing to put in the work to take advantage of it).

Also, consider the sheer amount of iron, wood, soil, and glass in say, Avendel. That was all presumably harvested by 0-level NPC characters. I think a smart dispersion of the resources should make it relatively easy and safe for any PC to harvest the lower-end materials without issue.

This was the case with Durben previously: had it not been for implemented CNR, he would have never been able to acquire even the relatively crappy equipment available for purchase in Immersea. He would have stagnated in progress because every single quest would have gotten him killed multiple times (and they did for a long time) because of the level gap.

quote:

Tazon Dae wrote:
Also, I have trouble seeing some big clumsy warrior type being the guy who makes all the pretty and expensive MAGIC rings while the mage who is experienced with magic (but can't survive the run down through all the god-creatures) is left staring stupidly at a rock.



Admittedly, there will need to be some RP-responsibility on the part of the players. I know very little about the implementation of CNR, but it seems like it's a server-dependent scripting, so class-oriented tweaks may not be out of the question.

quote:

Tazon Dae wrote:
The game has a crafting system we could implement and if someone wants to make something special, they could always ask a DM for help on it. The issue there, however, is if it's one of the DMs who throw insane loot like it's fncking beads at marti-gras or one of the level headed DMs who try to cater loot to the effort AND level AAAAND class in question (IE: I still couldn't see a fighter with no skill in casting spells making a sword of fireball deflection or some sh!t).



Well, again, there would need to be some sort of DM/Player RP-responsibility.

However, looking at the in-game system, it does seem a little broken. Milo Mestilsun is a rogue 5/warrior 3, with maxed out craft trap. He's currently able to craft minor fire traps and average spike traps. Those wouldn't even make the bandits between Rivenmaur and Avendel break stride. The utility of the native craft system is pretty suspect if you ask me.

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Faraday Halifax - Rick from the Reef

Milo Mestilsun - Half-Elf Tinker/Courier

Durben - Human Farmer/Artisan <whereabouts unknown>

Giaran Borma - Human Lawyer/Bounty Hunter <deceased>
1/23/2008, 9:44 am Link to this post Send Email to Moseph   Send PM to Moseph
 
Dustmemphit Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


This can also stimulate Player->Player trade as you send out them beefy front runners to kill the spawns and mine the hard to get ores... Meawhile many gem deposits could be added to the Bloodfens (which anyone can solo around lvl 8) meaning your mage and the beefy meat shield go in and split profit from making those little enchanted rings and amulets. Also, all it takes is finding coal and some clay along a river bank or lake and you have more than enough supplies to become an effective Tinker-er. ((I do that often in MD. Pay others for the supplies I can't get at, then create something and sell it using a moderate to decent appraise score.))
1/23/2008, 1:13 pm Link to this post Send Email to Dustmemphit   Send PM to Dustmemphit
 
Moseph Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


quote:

Dustmemphit wrote:

This can also stimulate Player->Player trade as you send out them beefy front runners to kill the spawns and mine the hard to get ores... Meawhile many gem deposits could be added to the Bloodfens (which anyone can solo around lvl 8)...



It also might be smart to have some trivial locations for the lowest of levels. Something with maybe a few monsters that pose little threat to a level 4 (or whatever the starting level is), but also provide useful CNR resources (like Fire Beetle Bellies or skeleton's knuckles). In that cave there could be some of the more rudimentary harvestable cave goods (I'm thinking iron, tin, copper, maybe 2-4 of the most common gemstones).

Alternatively, there could a craftsmen's union in town that deal in supplies for a reasonable fee, such that an investment of 300-500gp (ie, starting money) could let you develop a CNR skill enough that you could be at a level to turn minor profits from dealing with the union members.

Of course, we're getting ahead of ourselves here. The point of this thread wasn't to debate the pros/cons of CNR, it was to find out if it will be included in the module.

Last edited by Moseph, 1/23/2008, 2:32 pm


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Faraday Halifax - Rick from the Reef

Milo Mestilsun - Half-Elf Tinker/Courier

Durben - Human Farmer/Artisan <whereabouts unknown>

Giaran Borma - Human Lawyer/Bounty Hunter <deceased>
1/23/2008, 1:25 pm Link to this post Send Email to Moseph   Send PM to Moseph
 
Tazon Dae Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


Well we've seen it's track record, so I'd vote a big fat no on that topic.

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1/23/2008, 7:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to Tazon Dae   Send PM to Tazon Dae
 
Plane Walker Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


No, it's fuckin' stupid. More creative plots, more interesting areas, more cool storylines.

No
!@#$
retards
sitting
in
forges
all
day.

No thanks. Get out and interact.
1/24/2008, 6:51 pm Link to this post Send Email to Plane Walker   Send PM to Plane Walker
 
MottSpott Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


Plane's right.

The OOC items were annoying. Players who never interacted with anyone did it like crazy. It was like high level crafting in WoW.

You want to grind, play an MMO. Or play the Sims. Or some other builder game you play alone. SimTower. That game rocked.

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Little boy, I'm afraid that you have a serious mental problem. You see son, its just no good! I hate to be so blunt but you have the insanity of a manatee!!
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Mike Borodin Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


There are quite a few issues here, we need to separate them:

1. Players getting too rich through CNR: That is correct, you can get a lot of GP through crafting, but does it mean you can get nice items as well? Not neccessarily, the CNR items are not that great, neither are the items you can buy from the shops. I don't think the gold alone can or will make characters powerful.

2. Grinding: If those who grind CNR are 'idiots', then you can say the same thing about those who do dungeon crawling on a regular basis. Yes this is a RP server, I do think it's stupid to do dungeon crawling. But does it mean we should disallow players from doing it? If they want to do something repeatedly, let them. Maybe they really want to RP a blacksmith or something. CNR itself is not to blame here, we just have to get to implementation right.

3. Twinks: you know a lot of characters on the server are already pretty twinked out. Whether we put in CNR or not probably won't change that fact.

Conclusion: As much as I would like to see any sort of grinding be removed from the server, there is nothing wrong with letting players do some grinding so they have something to do when no one is running a plot. Instead of simply saying a big no or yes to it, I would say ff CNR is carefully implemented, why not. But if it's too much trouble to get the balance right, then don't bother.

Last edited by Mike Borodin, 1/24/2008, 9:36 pm


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1/24/2008, 9:34 pm Link to this post Send Email to Mike Borodin   Send PM to Mike Borodin
 
Tazon Dae Profile
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Re: Crafting on Aolyth


I never had an issue with the idea of it, because it's pretty cool, but there are alot of other, more fun things to work on that trying to fix a system which is basically one giant headache to those who build and far too imbalanced for those who use it. It sort of does screw up the in game economy with such a relatively small player pool.

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1/25/2008, 12:37 am Link to this post Send Email to Tazon Dae   Send PM to Tazon Dae
 


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