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Moseph Profile
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Registered: 01-2008
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Healing Kits


I'm beginning to believe that Healing Kits are too expensive.

When you consider that they're supposed to be the non-magical analogue of healing potions, it seems like they're really supposed to represent strips of cloth, herbs, and salves that are readily available, I think 100 gp is bit much. It also sort of burns that they used to be essentially free via CNR given a little bit of legwork.

When you consider how strong the majority of the plot creatures are compared to the relatively mixed parties that partake in the plots, and then factor in the distinct lack of magical healing spells amongst PC's lately, any party is bound to burn through a lot of healing kits (Hell, I went through 11 last night and we were relatively overpowered compared to the plot quest).

Since DMs seem to be shifting toward giving smaller rewards, and there is virtually zero incidental treasure anymore, it really feels like Milo is stagnant in terms of inventory, and the biggest part of it is that he's spending virtually all his loot on restocking his healing kits before plots.

I'm thinking a price that would help game balance is 24-33gp per kit.

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Faraday Halifax - Rick from the Reef

Milo Mestilsun - Half-Elf Tinker/Courier

Durben - Human Farmer/Artisan <whereabouts unknown>

Giaran Borma - Human Lawyer/Bounty Hunter <deceased>
3/30/2008, 11:30 am Link to this post Send Email to Moseph   Send PM to Moseph
 
Tazon Dae Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


Keep in mind that they give at minimum 22hp back when used out of combat. They also remove poison and disease effects (though not the initial stat reduction). If anything, I think the cost is fine where it is. Potions don't come very cheap, comparatively, but usually give alot less than the healing kits themselves. In all, the kits make priest healing almost useless unless it's a heal spell, so making them cheap would be somewhat unbalancing all around.

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Numos Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


While healer's kits are mundane and should logically be less expensive than potions... the problem is that they'rebetter. Potions provoke an attack of opportunity when used; healer's kits don't.

And like Relm said, it's also superior to priest healing in the same way.

However... the more points you have in the Heal skill, the more you're going to get out of the kits.

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Numos: Shapeshifting wizard
Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
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Moseph Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


Actually, the kits do seem to allow an attack of opportunity when healing others.

While the disease/poison thing is a valid argument, I haven't been noticing those effects in play all that often either. In essence, we're paying extra for a feature that never gets used.

This wouldn't be a big deal, except there's also no incidental treasure anywhere on the server, particularly during plots. It makes it so low-mid level characters can't equip themselves beyond the average mundane gear because they're using all their funds on expendables. If you're a casual player that takes a support role (which you sort of have to if you're on the lower end of the power spectrum in mixed parties), the game becomes somewhat tedious. I'm fully aware that I might be the only casual player on the server, but if there's any hope to actually increase the population in the long-term, that's a key issue to consider.

---
Faraday Halifax - Rick from the Reef

Milo Mestilsun - Half-Elf Tinker/Courier

Durben - Human Farmer/Artisan <whereabouts unknown>

Giaran Borma - Human Lawyer/Bounty Hunter <deceased>
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Tazon Dae Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


quote:

Moseph wrote:

Actually, the kits do seem to allow an attack of opportunity when healing others.


That's only if you move in close to the enemy or away from it. It's not a use based attack of opportunity, it's a movement based one.
quote:

Moseph wrote:

While the disease/poison thing is a valid argument, I haven't been noticing those effects in play all that often either. In essence, we're paying extra for a feature that never gets used.


I use it all the time. Goblins in particular use poison 24/7 and it's a !@#$ to deal with at times.
quote:

Moseph wrote:

This wouldn't be a big deal, except there's also no incidental treasure anywhere on the server, particularly during plots. It makes it so low-mid level characters can't equip themselves beyond the average mundane gear because they're using all their funds on expendables. If you're a casual player that takes a support role (which you sort of have to if you're on the lower end of the power spectrum in mixed parties), the game becomes somewhat tedious. I'm fully aware that I might be the only casual player on the server, but if there's any hope to actually increase the population in the long-term, that's a key issue to consider.


There are chests and such in every single dungeon, including the little starter quest area with the flying books. The Triad Tower has a ton of chests as well. In fact, I run into the problem of having too many kits on a couple of my characters.

What I noticed last time, where you ran out of them quickly, was that you seemed intent on healing everyone, including the suicidally stupid Pudgy. That's why you run through them so fast, I think.







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Moseph Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


quote:

Tazon Dae wrote:

quote:

Moseph wrote:
While the disease/poison thing is a valid argument, I haven't been noticing those effects in play all that often either. In essence, we're paying extra for a feature that never gets used.



I use it all the time. Goblins in particular use poison 24/7 and it's a !@#$ to deal with at times.



I'm specifically referring to moderate level characters of casual players. Casual players are most likely to be involved in DM-run quests. I haven't been seeing a whole lot of disease/poison from DM-quest monsters since I came back to the server. If they're being used, either I'm joining the wrong plots, or they simply don't hit the PCs enough that it matters.


quote:

Tazon Dae wrote:

quote:

Moseph wrote:

This wouldn't be a big deal, except there's also no incidental treasure anywhere on the server, particularly during plots. It makes it so low-mid level characters can't equip themselves beyond the average mundane gear because they're using all their funds on expendables. If you're a casual player that takes a support role (which you sort of have to if you're on the lower end of the power spectrum in mixed parties), the game becomes somewhat tedious. I'm fully aware that I might be the only casual player on the server, but if there's any hope to actually increase the population in the long-term, that's a key issue to consider.



There are chests and such in every single dungeon, including the little starter quest area with the flying books. The Triad Tower has a ton of chests as well. In fact, I run into the problem of having too many kits on a couple of my characters.



Your experience is vastly different than mine. Again, I don't generally like to grind through dungeons without any real purpose. On the few occassions that I've done it, all the chests were either empty or contained gems worth about 10-60gp. There was the occassional useful item (usually thieve's tools or a single kit), but that was pretty rare. Usually at the end of the dungeon there'd be a stash of maybe 100-400gp per person, which means that if you want to replenish your stock of kits, you've probably broken even, assuming the grind was basically successful.


quote:

Tazon Dae wrote:
What I noticed last time, where you ran out of them quickly, was that you seemed intent on healing everyone, including the suicidally stupid Pudgy. That's why you run through them so fast, I think.



That's a huge part of it, yeah. But for low-to-moderate characters on DM plots, that's basically required: the more powerful creatures can wipe out mid-tier and lower characters in 2-3 hits (4-5 if the damage roles aren't that great). In many cases, there is jack-all to be done in order to get around that. And that's when it starts to feel like you're being punished for playing a support character and not wanting to shoot up to level N by power-grinding.

Last edited by Moseph, 3/31/2008, 10:00 am


---
Faraday Halifax - Rick from the Reef

Milo Mestilsun - Half-Elf Tinker/Courier

Durben - Human Farmer/Artisan <whereabouts unknown>

Giaran Borma - Human Lawyer/Bounty Hunter <deceased>
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Mike Borodin Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


I think DMs can fix it to some extent by designing plots so killing things is not the focus and/or characters aren't subjected to constant injury/death. Or just give them more gold as part of the reward.

In fact for my next plot I'll just get the NPCs to give players some supplies to support them so they can focus more on the RP.

Then again I just really really hate plots where progression is decided by how good characters fight or how many healing kits they have.

At the end of the day DMs here are nice so even if your group gets wiped it doesn't mean game over.

Last edited by Mike Borodin, 3/31/2008, 11:10 am


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Numos Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


Well like I said, the reason they're expensive (And don't come in +1, +3, +6, +10 etc.) is so that the skill is actually valuable.

Otherwise the person who just stocks up on stack after stack of +10's is going to be a better healer than the guy who actually puts 20 ranks in it, because all you need to do is keep using them over and over and over.

---
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Numos: Shapeshifting wizard
Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
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StrifeCade Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


This is just to throw in. I in all I have nothing against the healing kits. But perhaps we should have a "lesser" healing kit for new characters. And so that higher LVL characters don't take advantage... slap on a lvl on who can use them.
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Tazon Dae Profile
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Re: Healing Kits


Mike has a point there. In fact, I had a blast with that negotiations quest he ran on the 30th. There was no point and click combat at all, it was all RPed and it was FAR more fun for that aspect, I think. There was the possibility of combat, but it wasn't the focal point.

As for not seeing much in terms of poison/disease, I'm thinking that may be from luck of the draw. You really aren't on that much, which is understandable since real life always comes before a video game, so you're likely just missing alot of stuff.

Going through dungeons "without a purpose" is a bit silly to say. There's always a purpose. It could be "we're cutting back the goblin population to make travel safer" or even "Those little green bastards stole a shipment from a caravan passing through and we could get the goods for ourselves!" It's all in how you want to see things. The server is VERY open that way. You do some work(DM run plot) you get a reward. You go into a goblin cave (Player run plot) You loot some chests as your reward.

Finally, if a DM is pitting you and only you against something which consistently wipes the floor with you, run find help! if you can't find help then just run. If they put you in a situation in which there's no escape, then it might be for plot reasons, or they might be mistaken in how they're running things. If it's a larger group and there are higher level folks, just choose your battles and the tactics of each carefully. All in all, I'd say things are usually kept on an even keel here, but sometimes things ARE a bit tough and/or rough. If it was always a cake walk I'd be bored with the place and play elsewhere.

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