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Akatora87 Profile
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Registered: 05-2006
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Detect Evil.


I tried searching the forum for this discussion, but I could not find any indication that it has already been done. I apologize if I have simply failed at finding it.

It came up in playing last night, however. What is the general opinion on Detect Evil? Is it a thing at all?

I ask, because it seems no two PW's handle it the same way, and I would prefer not stepping on anyones toes when I play Nathell.

---
Playing:
Nathell Tane
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Fraydoc Profile
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Re: Detect Evil.


I've been using Detect Good with a character of mine atleast. I use write that I stare at the person, and then write him a tell saying I use Detect Good on him. Havent been a problem so far.

Detect Evil/Good was used much much more in the previous server Numos had. There were even amulets floating around that prevented any Detections and even Scrying.
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Totems Profile
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Re: Detect Evil.


Generally it's been left up to the people involved in the RP. I don't think we have any specific rules for non-nwn spells, but I see no issue if everyone involved in the RP has agreed to it.

It is worth noting that Andrune is a very inherently 'shades of neutral' setting and often villains aren't directly evil. (even PC ones!) I think that's one reason we don't see much detect evil/good in use.

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Characters:
Isania Jalitana- The Huntress (and Mistress Egofantastic.)
Calisto - Gryphonrider
Nyx Talonbite- Amazon Crystal Champion of Death By Snu Snu
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Akatora87 Profile
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Re: Detect Evil.


Well, for my part Detect Evil will rarely result in more than drawing Nathell's attention. It's going to take quite a bit more than that, to warrant a smiting.

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Nathell Tane
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ASlapForJoffrey Profile
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Re: Detect Evil.


quote:

Akatora87 wrote:

Well, for my part Detect Evil will rarely result in more than drawing Nathell's attention. It's going to take quite a bit more than that, to warrant a smiting.



This is a good point. A paladin who harms someone simply for knowing they're evil will swiftly become not-a-paladin (not that I expect any players on this server will be so trigger-happy on PvP anyway!). Though the extent varies from paladin to paladin, the way I see it "ends justify the means" reasoning is treading a very fine line. Two wrong don't make a right and all that.

I think used responsibly as part of storytelling DE/DG are fine but perhaps if arbitration between players can't be resolved, best find a dm or admin to help do so.

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DM: CR 40 Housecat
PC: Vera Smith
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Numos Profile
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Re: Detect Evil.


I could certainly implement a detect evil system. Though I don't know if a PlayerTool that reveals the alignment of the target is completely ideal.

Perhaps bluff checks, some manner of non-detection spell, and illusion focus could modulate it? It could be an interesting RP tool.

Thus far I think we've gotten along pretty well with DMs giving paladins queues when appropriate. But I'd be happy to work something out.

---
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Numos: Shapeshifting wizard
Taevis Bentham: Woodsman
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theintrepidgnome Profile
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Re: Detect Evil.


I think if a Detect Evil system is implemented, it should have a relatively accessible counter. Like murdering the paladin in his sleep and leaving a bouquet of roses, or Protection from Alignment.



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Calchas Blaesus: A mad seer.
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Re: Detect Evil.


Maybe a wisdom/sense motive (we don't have sense motive on Andrune do we?) check from the paladin. The less wise the less reliable the DE, meaning you can't ever be certain. This check could be opposed by bluff or some other metric.

---
DM: CR 40 Housecat
PC: Vera Smith
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Fraydoc Profile
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Re: Detect Evil.


Spot or listen works as Sense Motive I think.. As they are wis based.
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theintrepidgnome Profile
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Re: Detect Evil.


I'm against using a skill check. My experience is that a lot of the classes are, at least for RP purposes, skill-starved enough as it is. Especially paladins, who have 2+INT. Spot and listen are also not class skills for paladins and it certainly seems to me that, if anything, the paladin should be good at both detecting evil and kicking butts in liberal measure.

So I have two proposals. I don't know if these are really fair because I will admit to my understanding of mechanics extending only to building bards, but here goes.

System One
I'd prefer a class level-oriented system with certain classes in mind. The higher the level of the paladin, the more likely he is to apply his ability successfully. Something like 1/2 level + wisdom modifier vs. 1/2 opposing level + charisma.

So a level sixteen paladin with sixteen wisdom will have a detect evil score of 8+3=11. A nineteenth level evil bard with a charisma of twenty will have a save of 9.5=9+5=14. Then you add in the obligatory d20 to even the playing field a little, meaning lower level paladins still have an opportunity to detect higher level evils. So,

Sir Smightston rolls 4 + 11 = 15
Sings McEatsbabies rolls 2 + 14 = 16
Sir Smightston detects no evil from Sings McEatsbabies.

Then I'd introduce another variable that accounts for 'more evil' people. These would be clerics of evil deities and blackguards. Possibly assassins but being undetectable is an important part of being an assassin, so I'm not certain. Anyway, I'd propose the disadvantage be literally half. Sacrificing the weak in ritualistic hunting to appease Malar or bringing about oppressive regimes is some pretty ne'er-well done, after all!

Sir Smightston rolls 4 + 11 = 15
Slaughters n' Pillages rolls 8 + 10 = 18 -9 = 9
Sir Smightston senses evil from Slaughters n' Pillages the Cyrican blackguard.

In this system I would also include two stipulations. The first being that a paladin should honestly have decent reason to be using detect evil in the first place. Realistically a paladin would be encountering evil people every single day - the man buying fruit at the local market might beat his wife, the child by the quarry might rip the wings off of flies to watch them suffer. Especially when you consider that the axis of alignment in DnD is never concrete, with characters sliding along the four dimensional continuum constantly.

The second stipulation is that evil people should have an escape from being found out. The sad reality of roleplaying in a world where Detect Alignment exists means that a lot of concepts can be brought flat onto their faces purely because somebody activated a class skill. It's hard to play the guileful politician when people know you're evil (isn't that right Tony?). I'd say this escape should be accessible, but exist in the form of a bonus rather than an absolute. Maybe having Protection from Good up confers a +10 bonus to your save?

System Two
Mediate it all through roleplay. This is my favorite means of going about it and I believe the Andrune community can certainly handle it this way. If you want to use Detect Evil on somebody, shoot them a tell and negotiate the circumstances from there.

Last edited by theintrepidgnome, 8/21/2013, 5:48 pm


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Calchas Blaesus: A mad seer.
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